Episode 8

full
Published on:

3rd Nov 2025

Dr. Ashley Stephens on CE Approvals, Supervision & Cultural Retreats

In this episode, Dr. Ashley Stephens joins host Natasha Moharter to talk about what it really takes to create meaningful continuing education—from navigating CE approvals and developing supervision trainings to designing culturally immersive retreats that bring learning to life.

As a multi-state licensed clinical social worker and co-founder of The Crane and the Bull, Dr. Stephens shares her journey building a CE business that blends cultural humility, ethical tourism, and practical guidance for clinicians who want to grow as educators.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

How to navigate CE approvals through NBCC, APA, ASWB, and state boards (including Texas)

The process of developing supervision trainings that meet board standards

Why cultural humility and travel-based learning can deepen professional growth

How to combine business structure with authenticity and purpose in your CE offerings

Tips for starting small—using local approvals and partnerships to expand nationally

Transcript
Natasha Moharter:

Welcome to the Continuing Education for Mental

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Health Professionals podcast.

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I'm your host, Natasha Moharter,

a licensed counselor, OCD

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specialist, and founder of CEUS.xyz,

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the continuing education directory

for mental health professionals.

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This podcast is here to inspire and

equip mental health professionals

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who want to share their expertise

through continuing education.

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In our Community Member Spotlight

episodes, we sit down with CEUS.xyz

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members to hear about their personal and

professional journeys as CE providers.

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You'll pick up practical tips and ideas

to help you start your own CE journey or

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enhance the trainings you already offer.

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Also, if you provide continuing education

trainings, you can get listed in our

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directory by visiting www.CEUS.xyz/join.

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Today we are joined by our

very special guest, Dr.

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Ashley Stevens.

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Dr.

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Stevens is a board certified

licensed clinical social worker.

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She's a supervisor and she's

licensed in nine states.

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She's in the process to complete

her doctoral degree in industrial

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and organizational psychology

from Grand Canyon University.

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She earned her master's in social

work from East Tennessee State

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University and her bachelor's in

psychology from the University

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of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

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As a consultant and trainer, Ashley has

taught courses in cultural awareness

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and competency, mindfulness, brain

injury and leadership development.

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She has coached executive leaders,

managers, and frontline employees while

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providing opportunities for individuals

to grow in the areas of organizational

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development, team building, and

executive development and training.

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She looks forward to continuing

to train and teach others.

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It's such a pleasure

to have you here today.

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Ashley Stephens: Happy to be here.

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Natasha Moharter: So tell us a little bit

about what got you interested in starting

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to become a continuing education provider?

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Ashley Stephens: What you'll learn

very quickly about me is that I am very

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honest, and this is one of those things.

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Honestly, I wanted to travel.

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I was talking with my

business partner, Dr.

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Regina VanBurg, and one of the things

that we talked about was how owning

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a business and having that freedom

and privilege to do that opens up the

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opportunities for so many different

things, including being able to make your

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own way in the world and doing what you

want and not doing what you don't want.

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And so when we were talking about what

we wanted, the thing that kept popping

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up was being able to travel, see

the world, explore in ways that were

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opening us up to more cultures, more

lifestyles, more people, the beauty that

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there is to those people in the world.

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One of the things that we wanted to do is

bring along our folks, bring people, LPCs,

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LMFTs, social workers, psychologists,

whoever along with us on the ride.

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Natasha Moharter: Your company

is called The Crane and the Bull.

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Ashley Stephens: Yes.

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Natasha Moharter: Can you tell us a little

bit about the meaning behind that name?

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Ashley Stephens: Yes.

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Such a funny story.

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My business partner and I actually

never meant for the Crane and the

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Bull to be what we were known as.

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Regina did her dissertation on

mindfulness and mindfulness practices.

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And one of the things that she included

in that, there's a novel called

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Death in the Afternoon by Hemingway.

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And in that book there is this story

about these bulls and bull fighting,

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that's kind of a central theme in it.

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And there is this thing known as

querencia, which is like a home base for

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the bull in the ring when it's fighting,

there's this zone that it feels most

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comfortable, most at home, most safe in.

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When you think about a bull, you

think of like grounded, rooted.

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Like that masculine energy,

but like very, like analytical

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sees the world for what it is.

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Very rational and realistic.

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So we knew we wanted something

to counterbalance that.

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I'm Native American, I'm a

member of the Chickasaw tribe.

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And so when we were thinking about what

is their symbology, what are the things

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that we can look to on the native side,

that kind of opposition to that energy.

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So the crane in native culture is

this wise, eloquent, graceful, patient

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and in a lot of cultures it has the

balance between earth and spirit.

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Our tagline is as above, so below, and

that to us is very much from this view

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that everything we are doing comes with

that integrity of, you know, we have

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something that we owe to others when we

work in this field and as trainers and

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retreat leaders we wanna be able to share

who we are in an authentic way with having

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both of those kinds of energies at play.

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And Regina is Indonesian.

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And I am native, like I said.

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So we have this, like,

we're both white appearing.

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We both look very, very

American, very white.

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And we have privilege

that's associated with that.

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But that's one of the, like, tying it

back to who we are and our roots and

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knowing that when you're working with

us, you're working with a company of,

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you know, first generation immigrant and

native and woman owned and tiny and all

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of those things is really important to us.

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Natasha Moharter: I love how you bring

in that sense of responsibility as

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well, what are some of the purposes

behind the work that we're doing.

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Ashley Stephens: Absolutely.

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Natasha Moharter: You've gone

through several, approval processes.

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You have N-B-C-C, A-P-A, A-S-W-B

which is in process, and then, you

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also are a CEU provider in Texas.

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So how do those compare and what

would be helpful for someone

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considering those approvals to know?

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Ashley Stephens: So first, if

you are listening and you're

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thinking about this process.

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Join Natasha's Facebook group.

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It's really important.

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I'm like, I can give you feedback,

but also find people who are

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doing it, get their opinions,

see what they've gone through.

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Every journey is a little different,

which is kind of fun and exciting,

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but also it's a party of one.

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When you're doing this, it can feel

really isolating and, nerve wracking.

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NBCC is the one if you have

one that you're gonna go after.

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NBCC to me was the most personable,

helpful, reachable, accountable.

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They are just so darn

approachable is the best word.

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You can call them.

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You can set up meetings with them.

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They're very, very informative and kind

and lovely, and not that some of our

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APA and ASWB and all those other things

aren't, but it was a lot harder to reach

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people at those larger organizations.

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Natasha Moharter: That is something that

I've heard before is that NBCC is a little

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bit more streamlined and you get feedback

and it's not so kind of like, okay, now

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you pay for this revision and then you

pay for this revision, which maybe is

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present in some of the other approvals.

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I know for me it was, I've wanted

to be a continuing education

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provider since I was in grad school.

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I loved continuing education for

whatever reason, and yet I was so

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intimidated and looking at these

things and like, can I do that?

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Are you sure?

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And it wasn't until I started

interacting in a community with

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other CEU providers, right?

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And being like, wait, you've done this.

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How did you do that?

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Okay, wait, yeah.

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What else does that entail?

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Ashley Stephens: What we ended

up doing, we tried the classic

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route of just signing up whatever.

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And as you said, the problem is you don't,

you kind of just get a yes or no four

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weeks or six weeks later, you get a why.

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Why was it a yes and why was it a no?

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And for us it was a no.

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Literally it was like every single thing

that we did, they had a problem with.

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So we paid the money and then they're

like, there's no redeeming this.

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You just have to start all over.

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And that to me feels very backwards.

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We're not trying to

bowl one over on anyone.

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We wanna provide high quality, amazing

trainings that are interesting, that

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help people, that help the clients

that are fun and exciting so we're

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not trying to get away with something.

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If we don't meet muster, then that's okay.

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We wanna be better.

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But paying all of that money and then

just receiving a nah, do everything

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different was really demoralizing.

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Actually with APA, there's a

process called sponsorship.

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How we title it is we're APA sponsored

training, which means we can offer

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our CEUs for APA credit through

someone else who is APA accredited.

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So we kind of went the like back

route to get to the same thing.

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And that is working beautifully for us.

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She has to turn in all of the paperwork

and making sure it's of high quality.

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And she also saw the value and it

was like a real person that we could

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talk to about, like, here's our

thoughts, here's what we're doing.

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I would say if you are offering a

CE that's local, that is in person,

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that is just for a community or a

small group of people getting a state

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certifying body to do that is like

chef's kiss easy, quick, and cheap.

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If you wanna go national with it.

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And that is your ultimate goal is

to get your training in the hands

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of any clinician in the country.

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NBCC is, to me, the best.

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You have to do a lot, but like a

process that you can do that makes

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you feel kind of good about yourself

and that you're not like an idiot and

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you know what you're doing and that

there is someone to help you out.

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Absolutely.

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But don't sleep on your local NASWs or

your local counseling groups or your

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local psychology groups, whatever it is.

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They're very kind.

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And we've offered, Louisiana, we've

offered North Carolina credit.

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Any place that we go, we try and reach

out to those local communities who

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are often really pumped to have you.

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So that's a great option too if

you're looking to start small.

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Natasha Moharter: I started as

a Nevada licensed CEU provider.

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And my Nevada one is I think $150

a year and I can offer as many

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trainings as I want live, asynchronous.

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Not all states have them, but there are

processes to get state approved and you

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can actually reach several different

states and clinicians that way as well.

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Ashley Stephens: Yeah.

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The local ones really, we

found to be really an amazing

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advocate for what they approve.

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It's an amazing option.

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Natasha Moharter: You

don't have to start big.

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We can start at our local levels.

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Ashley Stephens: So in Texas,

that one is a little bit

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different of a state approval.

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So in Texas, being a board approved

supervisor also makes you a CE provider.

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How do you navigate that and

are your Texas approved courses

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limited to supervision or

can they cover other topics?

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Yes, so Texas is fun.

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It's the wild West out here in some ways.

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They wanted to get away from the

business of like approving CE providers.

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Texas kind of solidified

that in our state law.

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It now says that 50% of your hours have

to come from a list of types of providers,

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so they're not gonna approve them.

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But if it's a school system, hospital

system, mental health clinic, charity, 5

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0 1 c3, there's like these big buckets.

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But one of those is a

supervisor in the state.

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So LPC supervisor, LMFT

supervisor, or an LCSW supervisor.

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So if you are a supervisor in

the state of Texas, you are an

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automatic approved CE provider.

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So with that, any

training is on the table.

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Now what I tell people when they

ask is, I would still make sure that

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you're doing things the way that it

has been accepted in the CE world.

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So have an agenda, have goals, make

sure that it's not 42 minutes long.

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Make it an hour, make it an

hour and a half, whatever.

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Offer certificates and make sure

that you have a process to do that.

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Make it like it's real, even if no one

is double checking and make it relevant.

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So what that means for us is

any training that I provide,

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including this one, because I'm a

supervisor, I can give credit to

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Texas providers which is amazing.

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Natasha Moharter: You also

created a supervision training

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that's moving through approval.

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What goes into developing that

type of course, compared to others?

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Ashley Stephens: So in the state

of Texas, it requires 40 hours of

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training in supervision in order to

become a board designated supervisor.

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Every single state and each of our

professions has different requirements

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for the supervision course.

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So in the state of Texas, 40 hours,

and they actually are pretty dang

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specific about what they require.

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So there's ethics required,

there's technology.

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You have to think about all of the

people that live in those rural areas

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that don't have access to go to a

training in Austin for three days.

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When we created our supervision training,

I actually partnered with an LPC, LMFT,

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Kate Walker, who I work with very closely.

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She has been doing the 40 hour training

for those professions for years.

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She was like, I am thinking about offering

this training for social workers, but I

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need a social work supervisor to do it.

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I love supervision, but to me

as a clinician, I've always

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been more macro in nature.

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My brain, the way I think, the way I

process things is that macro level, and

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to me offering supervision was that I am

able to affect so much change with the

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10, 20, how many ever supervisees I have,

how many clients am I able to reach.

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Now expand that even further

by being able to train those

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trainers to be good supervisors,

to think about the legal aspects.

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What happens if your supervisee

has a legal complaint or a board

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complaint or whatever else.

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So our training, I was in the fortunate

position to kind of just piggyback

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on something that was already going

and then tailor it to social workers

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rather than create it from scratch.

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But if you have a passion like I

did for supervision, think about how

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you can use that passion to create

trainings in your community and

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to think about that next level up.

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How can I give people the knowledge and

the information they need to do what I do?

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And to me, I love supervising.

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I love supervisors.

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I love supervisees.

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I love providing that information.

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So it was kind of just a natural

extension of who I am to then offer

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that training to people in a way

that is attainable and approachable.

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We are the only training in Texas that

does it completely asynchronously.

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You don't have to be on a Zoom call for

eight hours, which is how I did mine.

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I did three days of eight hours

on a Zoom call on a Friday,

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Saturday, and Sunday, and then had

16 hours of readings before that.

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Our course there's videos,

worksheets, papers.

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We hit anti-racism and

multiculturalism really hard.

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And all of that is done on your own time.

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The only rule in Texas is that

you have to do it within 90 days.

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So parents, single parents, people

who have their own businesses.

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I think that our course is a lot

easier to do as you have time than

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to take a weekend when you might

not have the time to do that.

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Natasha Moharter: When you sit

down to develop a CE training, what

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does that process look like for

you from kind of idea to delivery?

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Ashley Stephens: So we kind of

thought about what are the ways

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in which we can get people at our

trainings that we can really start

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marketing and selling these things?

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And we went through different ideas about

what we should offer, what we could offer,

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what our expertise was, what we wanted

to, which I think is just as important.

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What do you wanna talk about if

you're creating a business for CEs

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make sure it's stuff you care about

and that you're going to want to talk

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about time and time and time again.

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And I think that that's one of

the things that we kept going

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down wrong pathways because we

asked what does our customer want?

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And I honestly think that when you get

like business coaching and you pay for

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some of these programs that help you

create your CEs or whatever else, that's

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what it says all the time is figure,

like get in the mind of your customer.

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What does your customer want?

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What does your customer need?

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Natasha Moharter: Do you get into the

mind of your client and your customer or

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do you pursue something that you want?

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Or both.

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And so how did you bridge that gap?

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Ashley Stephens: So Regina is a trauma

trained psychologist all day, every day.

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Trauma.

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Trauma, trauma and combat.

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Veteran trauma for the most part.

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We both worked at the VA

together, that's where we met.

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And so she knows trauma

like the back of her hand.

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My dissertation was on burnout

in government employees.

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But when we talked about traveling,

it was like, you can kind of do a

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trauma training why would you wanna

go to Spain or Indonesia or Japan

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to learn that it just didn't really

pair with what we were trying to do.

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So we're like, let's go back to home base.

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What is the most important and vital

aspects of mental health providers

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in travel, and that led us to our

current state, which is cultural

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humility, cultural immersion.

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Cultural competence is a word that

we use because it's what the field

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knows, but can you ever be competent?

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So really what we wanted to do was

provide opportunities for ethical

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tourism, funding the people and the places

and the companies of that local area.

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How does that help you grow

and learn as a clinician?

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So when we kind of shifted to

that, like, well, what makes the

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most sense for the trip itself?

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That is what created the most magical

experiences for our participants.

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And I naturally believe that the

people who are meant to be seated

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at your training, who are meant to

be your participants will find you

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when you get really good at following

your passion and educating people

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based on what is needed in our world.

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Natasha Moharter: Your

retreats are unique.

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What does it look like to attend one

and how does immersion reinforce that

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learning differently than a classroom?

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Ashley Stephens: One of the things that

we ask people in our trainings is to get

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uncomfortable, and that's on purpose.

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Growth happens when you're

out of your comfort zone.

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It doesn't happen when

we're in our comfort zone.

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We've had the whole gamut of

super well traveled all the way

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to people who've never been outta

the country, we've had it all.

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But no matter how familiar or comfortable

you are with traveling, one of the things

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that we will be asking you to do is get

a little uncomfortable because what the

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research says is that when we increase our

cultural awareness, our cultural humility,

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when we're out there doing this work.

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Our burnout decreases our

life satisfaction increases.

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Getting out of our bubble is good for us.

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Even if it's hard.

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And we ask our clients to get

uncomfortable every minute of

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every day when they're with us.

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How dare we act like we should be

comfortable every minute, right?

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Like we have to walk the

walk and talk the talk.

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I like to joke, and Regina would

hate me for saying this, but

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our retreats are not for fun.

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Will you have fun?

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I hope so.

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I think it's a great time.

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But the training itself is quite serious.

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What we're asking you to do is open

your heart, your mind, reflect on your

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biases, your judgements, your stereotypes.

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That's not fun.

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That's not easy.

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It's hard work.

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And learning about where you come

from, your people, how you think,

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where those thoughts come from,

overlaying that on where you are and

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those people and what they think.

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So our training is called

Self, Other, World.

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Self-Reflection.

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Other- who are these people.

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World- how do we then incorporate what

we've learned being in these places,

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in these locales with our own stuff

into being better, more culturally

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aware, more competent clinicians.

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So every single one of our trainings

has a welcome dinner where we

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gather and share a meal prepared

with local food by a local chef.

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We wanna give back to our local

community wherever we're stationed.

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We wanna make sure that this is culturally

prepared in a way that is legit.

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They make food from there.

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They tell stories about the food, why they

chose these things, why the ingredients

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are what they are, where they were grown.

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Each one of our trainings we hire

someone from the area to talk with us.

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The things that we have learned from

those individuals as individuals, as

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well as what they have to say about who

they are as a people has been so amazing.

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Our first one in Scotland, we partnered

with an organization that trains homeless

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individuals to become tour guides.

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To give them a stable income, get

them off the street, but like that

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to us is the linchpin of like, who,

not just who do we say they are,

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not who do we say we think they are?

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Meet them, get to know them,

look at them, watch them, be

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with them, engage with them.

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And then who are you in that

and who are they in that?

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And how do we move forward together

knowing a little bit more about who

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they are and hopefully confronting

some of our preconceived notions

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and beliefs about who they are.

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Our trainings are on couches in

living rooms and on the streets.

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And that's purposeful.

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Anyone can open up Google and type in a

place and get to know the locales and the

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weather, it's something else to be in it.

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Boots on ground, walking the streets.

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Everywhere we've been so far ancient

places, hundreds, thousands of years

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of people walking these same streets.

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Native peoples were on this

land for a really long time, but

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our cities aren't those cities.

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Our streets are not those streets.

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So to me that like the real world

understanding of culture, you have

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to be in it while it's great, you

know, take your cultural competence

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training at your conference, and there

are times where a box checking has

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to happen, funds are limited, or this

is in my backyard or whatever else.

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But if you own your own business.

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These are write-offs.

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And to me that changed like many

of my trainings were just like,

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whatever was close and quick.

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You can use these experiences to

further get some relaxation and rest,

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but also to see more of the world.

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And if you're thinking of something and

you don't see it out there, create it.

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If you're not a 10 99 or you

don't own your own business.

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Think about asking your HR person, your

boss, your supervisor, whoever else.

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We've had a couple people come with

us who got it completely paid for.

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A lot of places are offering people those

kinds of things as extra benefits and

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perks in order to bring them on board,

ask, the worst that they can say is no.

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But we've had a fair few now that have

come completely covered by their employer.

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Natasha Moharter: So you do have

this retreat in Mexico City.

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How did you pick Mexico City?

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Ashley Stephens: So this retreat is

a little bit different than the ones

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that we've done before because this

one is actually centered around a

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holiday, around a festival, around

a time period that is meaningful for

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people who are Hispanic or Latin.

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When we decided that we wanted to go

to Mexico City, one of the things that

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we thought about was why not do it this

holiday period, which has deep, meaningful

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connection to not only heritage,

identity, religion, spirituality, but

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grief and bereavement and connection

with yourself and with your past.

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And as mental health providers,

how meaningful different types of

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populations grieve and what they do

to celebrate that, the passing and

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the connection with their ancestors.

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We've been excited about every one

that we've done so far, but this has

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got an extra something to it because

we'll be there during this season.

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The goal is learning and

reflection and meaning and

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connection and all of those things.

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And I'm like, not that we shouldn't

have fun, but this isn't a food

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tour, it's not a wine tour.

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It's not a like, how many bars

can we stop at in an hour?

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So for our tour, one of the things that

was really important for us is that we

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are not interrupting people's actual

sacred processes for Day of the Dead.

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That we're not infringing on the local

cemeteries and the people who are actually

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celebrating and having the intimate

family ceremonies that they're having.

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So we're gonna go to like the really

popular cemetery, and we're gonna

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see the decorations, we're gonna

see the Catrinas, we're gonna do

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the street festival, the parade.

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We're gonna have pan de muerto,

which is the day of the dead bread.

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We're gonna build our own ofrenda,

so people are going to bring

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pictures of their loved ones

and we're going to honor them.

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Actually we think Mexico City again

next year because this has been such

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a joy and we're so excited about it.

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And I think I would be remiss if I

didn't talk about the irreparable

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harm that our current administration

is doing to people specifically of

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Hispanic descent, and LatinX folks.

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It's such an important piece of

our American culture, especially

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where I'm from the Southwest.

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This is, it was Mexico.

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This was another land.

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And the people that are from

here are of this land and no

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one is illegal on stolen land.

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Right?

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So when we think about places

like Mexico, I think that we

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wanna continue to honor that.

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There's a lot of misconceptions and a lot

of preconceived notions that are wrong

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about the Mexican people, about Mexico

as a place, the government, et cetera.

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So like we have to continue showing up.

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I don't feel like we can do the work

of cultural humility, competence,

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immersion, whatever you wanna call it,

and act like we're above or untouched

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by some of the things that are going on.

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We owe it to the profession of mental

health to live in the real world.

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And the real world is suffering.

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So we can't do cultural competence

work and act like these things aren't

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hurting our neighbors to the south

and our actual neighbors here, there,

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and everywhere, because Mexican

people are part of our culture.

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Natasha Moharter: And we can

do that through things like

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our continuing education.

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We also can make change at that

grassroots level when we are intentional

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with let's see what's happening in

today's world, where are we needed

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and how do I connect with that?

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What is important to me about

that and what part can I do?

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And peace is a form of resistance, right?

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Being able to make money and resource and

be able to fund certain things, right?

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That's a form of resistance.

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Being able to say, Hey, I want to use my

creativity and do a cultural immersion.

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Ashley Stephens: And we think that there's

room for deep, meaningful work and taking

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care of who we are, expanding our brains,

our horizons, and our cultural knowledge

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while honoring and celebrating the amazing

cultures that we share this planet with.

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And that's who we are and

that's what we're for.

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Do you make it a safe place for everyone

who walks in the room, no matter what

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they look like, sound like, act like.

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It's really important work to do and we

owe it to our clients to be better at

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knowing who they are and where they come

from and what they stand for, and being

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curious and open about who they are.

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Natasha Moharter: Anything else that

you feel would be helpful to share?

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Ashley Stephens: I would just say,

again, I think that your Facebook group

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is such a amazing resource for people.

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If you are looking to enter the CE space

and want support, validation, guidance,

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advice, resources, please join us.

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It's so much fun and people

get so many different opinions.

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You know, we all kind of come

from different places and are in

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different places in our CE journey

and it's been so wildly helpful and

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fun to just read along and watch as

people navigate the world of CEs.

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It is a intimidating venture,

but one that if I can do it, I

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swear to you, I am no one special.

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I just am a girl who decided to

do a thing and it worked out.

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Anyone can do this.

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You don't have to be a

mastermind at business.

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You can just be you with all of your

knowledge, skills and abilities.

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And I think there's a

place for all of us here.

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There's enough room at the table for

any, and if you are a person of color,

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if you are someone who is different

than the majority, I believe that

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we need your voice even louder than

those of us who aren't those things.

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Natasha Moharter: Where can they find you?

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Ashley Stephens:

www.thecraneandthebull.com

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We're on social media, we're on Facebook,

we're on Instagram, we're on LinkedIn.

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All the ways the Crane and the Bull.

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And if you're interested in supervision

my website for the course is SW as in

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social work swsupervisioncourse.com.

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Natasha Moharter: Thank you

again for being here today.

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I hope all the best for you on this

retreat and all your trainings to come.

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Ashley Stephens: Thank you.

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Appreciate it.

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About the Podcast

Continuing Education for Mental Health Professionals
CE for Mental Health Professionals
The Continuing Education for Mental Health Professionals Podcast is brought to you by CEUS.xyz—the online directory and community for finding and listing continuing education trainings for mental health professionals. Inspired by the connections and conversations within our community, this podcast spotlights the journeys of CE providers from across the field.

You’ll hear how they developed their trainings, navigated approvals, reached wider audiences, and added new income streams to their practices. We also explore practical tips, marketing strategies, and behind-the-scenes lessons that can help you become a CE provider or improve your existing trainings. Whether you’re just starting out or looking to grow, these conversations will give you the insight, inspiration, and resources to take the next step.

About your host

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Natasha Moharter

Natasha Moharter is a counselor and OCD specialist who is passionate about helping mental health professionals keep growing in their work. She created the Continuing Education for Mental Health Professionals Podcast to make CE learning practical, meaningful, and inspiring — not just another requirement to check off. In addition to hosting the podcast, Natasha runs CEUS.xyz, a directory built to connect providers with quality trainings and help CE educators share their expertise. Through both platforms, she’s committed to supporting therapists in expanding their skills, finding community, and making a bigger impact.